Monthly Archives: June 2009

Legitimate use of anabolic Steroids

We’ve all come to this problem – we want to get gear but have no real reason for a doctor to write a prescription. Even if he would, the range would be somewhat limited as doctors tend to only prescribe mild dosages of anabolics when they actually write a prescription. So at home you will have to get gear elsewhere… But still, if by any chance somebody finds the gear with me, what shall I say?

Anabolic Steroids are used in many fields of Medicine, but for an average bodybuilder only two fields are really applicable. Patients with HIV are treated with Anabolic Steroids in order to make up for the weight lost due to the illness. The other field is Testosterone deficiency treatment, for people whose testicles are not producing enough testosterone and additional testosterone needs to be introduced to the body for normal body functioning. Although I know people that have HIV and are actually extremely bulk this excuse will probably not be used very often because of prejudice and the fact that it is very easily established that one has HIV.

Testosterone deficiency on the other hand is quite hard to prove (and disprove) as it test levels are frequently different from patient to patient and some uniform measurements don’t always apply. Basically every doctor will give a different opinion on this issue. So if you are lucky enough to find a doctor that will say you suffer from Testosterone deficiency, you win.

So here is the point of the whole post – how to find such a doctor. Do note that some assumptions from here on are theoretical and actual application will vary from state to state, country to country. This in reality is informative post only. If you actually work it out do let me know.

In the states and most of the “Western” countries you will have some problems with persuading a doctor (the bulkier you are lower the probability) that your test levels are too low and that you NEED anabolic steroids to keep function normally. Even if they do buy it they will probably do other treatments first (basically PCT). So forget these countries.

Here’s good news – if you like to travel you will have no problem finding a “less developed” country where you will be able to find a more willing doctor. The beauty clinics all over the world are offering numerous programs for wight loss, vitalization, rejuvenation, etc. In Thailand for example you can go for an official weight loss treatement supervised by a doctor and they will treat you with – I didn’t really believe this at first – Clenbuterol. You will note that Clenbuterol is used for bronchodilator and officially was never used for Weight loss. in similar way Pregnyl is used for weight loss (again not meant for it), HGH is used for weight loss and rejuvenation, etc. And yes, you have guessed it, you can also get a testosterone deficiency treatment there, voila, prescription for anabolic steroids.

I know what you are thinking, you can get anabolics without prescription in any Thai pharmacy so why bother with a doctor. The problems is many of us have been on these trips and we often want to take home some souvenirs. So we put them in the luggage and hope the customs will not bother to check us. If they do though, we could be in a world of problems. Take the German tourist who entered Florida as an example. I guess he didn’t want to cut his cycle short so he brought it with him. Because he had a vial of deca and an amp of test (No doubt Norma and Galenika ) and some pins he’s faced with five felony charges… Read more here.

So if you visit a doctor the main difference is that you actually get a prescription for whatever souvenirs you wish to take home. And since you are a foreigner you can ask the good Thai doctor to give you some form of diagnosis in English on paper as you would really like to inform your doctor of the “illness” you have. Basically should you have any problems on the border because of the souvenirs you have a lot better standpoint – you have a prescription for the items, and even a diagnosis why you need them. That may not save you completely but is sure to help you a lot if the shit hits the fan.

Secondly, as stated above, testosterone deficiency diagnosis is a vague term. According to

Recent estimates show that approximately 13 million men in the United States experience testosterone deficiency and less than 10% receive treatment for the condition.

Studies have shown that men with obesity, diabetes, or hypertension may be twice as likely to have low testosterone levels.

What this means is you might fall into those 13 million men and since you already have a diagnosis you might be able to persuade your doctor that you actually do have it. This is a far shot (I personally would give it 1/4 chance) but one avenue one could potentially wish to peruse.

So if you are lucky, you might get a lot more from this trip than just a vacation. Word of caution, If you do go to Thailand please make sure and protect yourself so you don’t suddenly fall into the other, HIV positive group of people eligible for anabolic steroids treatment.

As said above, this is theory. Or an idea up for discussion if you wish. If anybody has any feedback, please let me know.

For a start here is some info:

Pattaya International Hospital
Soi 4 , Beach Road, Pattaya City, Cholburi 20260 Thailand

Dr. Sawaddipong Clinic
20/1 Moo 10 Pratumnuk Rd., Near Erawan Hotel, South Pattaya, Thailand

Contact these 2 numbers to make their appointments – +6685 219 0066 , +6684 646 6181

Steroid wars and diplomacy

If you are interested in recent developments surrounding the Bill Llewllyns book about underground steroids you definitely need to follow the following discussion:

Do note that some members have posted some personal info on some of the people involved and some of them got deleted… so you might want to check regularly. Quite an interesting (well, I’d call it entertaining) read. I do hope some good will be the end result of this (like knowing who makes what).

Body of Science back online

I stand corrected.

I wrote the last couple of hours too early yesterday, many new interesting things happened since…

First of all, Llewllyn’s site is back online. According to Ronnie of BOS the attack happened because of Expected negative report in Bill’s new book of a certain UG lab based in Moldova. This is a “official” statement on the subject by a bodyofscience admin RonnyT

Click here

It would seem things will yet heat up and the summer could be interesting.

Summer time

OK, officially summer has started. You wouldn’t be sure as temps don’t really suggest it, but officially summer time has started.

Not only can you be sure of it by looking at the calendar, the activities in the steroid world suggest the same thing. Well, lack of activities that is. Looks like everyone is thinking about the summer, and everybody has stopped doing what they were doing and are just relaxing.

In the same way there is almost no steroid related news these days. After the arrests in the past month (Mainly in Texas) and DDoS attack on bodyofscience nothing really happened since. Bodyofscience is still down, community is still speculating who is behind this, but no real discovery has been made.

If you haven’t finished your cycle before summer, or are still thinking about a cycle, good news – you can get 6% discount on one order at (they sell Asia Pharma…). No hurry though, you can use it until end of July.

Asia Pharma Thailand

It’s been a long time since I’ve written about Asia Pharma 😉

You will all be glad to hear that Decabolic and Cypiobolic will be available in Thai Pharmacies in about 2 – 3 weeks. I also heard that new products will also be registered, but at this time it’s unclear which products will be registered, and in what turn. I hope they’ll register HGH soon, for less than $3 per IU, that would be great. Who knows though, time will tell…

I’ve also seen people posting on boards that they’ve checked in Thailand and they cannot find Asia Pharma products. For those of you who are in Thailand now despite the flu, here’s couple of addresses in Pattaya you’ll find interesting (no, no exotic girls here – well, maybe):

1) Jatuporn Pharmacy
59 / 4 Moo 10, South Pattaya, Nongprue, Bang lamung, Chonburi

2) Jatuporn Pharmacy (Jomtian beach Branch)
410 / 37 Moo 12, Jomtian Beach Rd., Pattaya , Nongprue , Bang lamung , Chonburi

And if you are there, say hi to the girls for me 😉

Roids in Baseball

There’s many news articles, speculations, internet posts on the subject of Steroids in Baseball these days. Most writers are disgusted with players using anabolic steroids, some are actually defending them. The other day I wrote about an article on ESPN that defended entry of juicers to baseball HOF, now a similar article is published on New York Times, this one even more positively oriented towards juicers. The author is the same, but the author actually suggests acceptance of Steroids in Baseball:

Baseball, led by the Hall of Fame, needs to accept this and replace mythology and spin with realism and honesty. If everyone has access to the same drugs and training methods, and the fans are told what these are, then the field is level and fans will be able to interpret what they are seeing on the diamond and in the box scores.

more on The New York Times

Another UG busted, beware of the mail

There was yet another bust in Texas yesterday as DEA was notified of suspicious packages addressed to a home in San Antonio. More info and Video on Ksat.

First of all, I’m glad these guys were arrested. Don’t get me wrong, I’m for legalization or at least decriminalization of anabolics in the states as much as any other juicing bodybuilder. However, I really feel sorry for any poor sucker who would buy “High Quality Gear” from these guys. If you watch the whole video (not really long though) you will notice these guys were actually manufacturing their products in the trailer. Having entered couple of trailers parks in my past they were seldom clean and I would think of this as quite a bacteria friendly environment. You will note that the raw materials they were using weren’t really protected and somebody simply wrote the contents on the zip-lock baggies. What if the person who labeled these baggies made a mistake? You will note that on one it said Anabar. Hmmm, the news didn’t say nothing about any drugs or painkillers (Anabar is a trade name for a mild pain-killer, see more here). Or was it supposed to be Anavar? Now if they can’t get the spelling right, how can they ensure the content is right?

I really wonder who of us would willingly want to inject an unknown substance mixed with frying oil, made in a Trailer park!? I see no real loss with this arrest…

There is another more troubling thought though. With all the recent arrests in the past weeks it seems the DEA is on the move so we should all be real careful. Texans especially. Unless the news report is false and DEA lying this arrest happened because they found “A series of suspicious packages” and “The source varies. East coast, west coast.” This would suggest that DEA is checking domestic packages, most probably putting postal workers on alert for any suspicious packages.

I really doubt that DEA is looking for end customers but in the past it has happened that some postal worker would freak, local sheriff would freak thinking “DRUGS” and in the end police could brake down your doors cause you ordered some winny on the net. So if you expect a delivery soon you might want to be somewhat careful. I doubt DEA would bother with a small package but better to be safe than sorry.

Steroid Wars, Attack of the Clones

OK, I’m a movie buff, but in a way all the activity in the past couple of months is becoming to look like a cheap Hollywood B-class movie.

Anyone of you trying to access BodyOfScience these days have noticed the site is down, but the reason behind it is somewhat unknown. Unfortunately the reason the BOS is down is not the fault of the BOS personnel but because of a DOS (more probably DDOS) attack. Now everybody is thinking why would anybody attack a forum? There are numerous speculations. So why not present couple of them?

The main reason for an attack is no doubt the new book from William Llewllyn where they collected samples of all major manufacturers of anabolic steroids (most of them underground) and put them through a series of tests. The results are unknown at this point as they are kept for the book, as they should be or the book will not sell. However, William Llewllyn has published a small peak at the results by publishing the very dangerous products on the BOS forum. Read more about it here. There were numerous speculations and rumors how many of the large UGLs have threatened Llewllyn how their products should be shown in a better light, removed from the book, etc. A lot of these have also published on their own forums and sites that the new book is simply incorrect and written with a sole purpose of discrediting “good” and “legitimate” manufacturers.

The attack is coming from MOLDOVA, so we can narrow it down somewhat, not completely though. There are couple of manufacturers/dealers stationed in Moldova but DoS is quite a complicated attack so whoever is doing this must have pretty good resources (wiling individuals would want some $500-$1000 per day for doing this, and it takes 3-5 to make a server fully unresponsive). So all the little fish can be ignored. This would leave us some 3 – 4 individuals. I think we can safely say that Naps, given his problems these days (read this, Roberts may have his value). And we’re left with two main suspects: Alin and Brian.

Now, Alin has been known for doing something similar couple of years back – he threatened and eventually did start an attack on once his fellow partner of British Dragon Faramas (aka Mark). At one point or other he actually threatened just about everybody of his competitors with a DDoS. However, looking from perspective, there was no conflict between Alin and BOS in the past months, not a very direct one anyways. BOS even placed all Balkan discussions in the Pharmaceutical section, effectively proclaiming Balkan as a legit Human Grade manufacturer (OK, partially, but compared to others he was very well of).

On the other hand we have Brian. There weren’t any rumors of him using DDoS on anybody (except threatening a counter-attack on Alin in those times). He, however, has got good and numerous motives to stop BOS. Most importantly in the sneak look at tests performed by Llewllyn, Axio product was shown as extremely dangerous. If other tests showed similar results, it would be an end of his brand(s). Furthermore, BOS forums were one of the few forums where Brian doesn’t have some kind of a deal with admins and his products were bashed without any restraints. And Brian is definitely one very viscous person, shown by his actions against SBC. When a known blogger brought attention to the errors in medical tests published on Axio website, Brian retaliated by buying SBC’s domain and tried to present it as SBS s new blog. Very childish but a good show of character. So all things considered, Brian is the most plausible culprit behind the DDoS attacks.

I haven’t checked the BOS forum posts for couple of days before they went down so I don’t know of any heated debate that could cause this, so my speculation may be off. And I know many of the manufacturers all over are quite happy with this development. I sincerely hope that this will not affect the lab-results and conclusions in Bill’s new book as that would be really tragic for the community.

Prices, Prices, how cheap is cheap enough?

I was looking to buy some Deca the other day and as I actually do what I preach (well, almost) I opted to find some Human Grade stuff; which gave only 3 options really, Organon/schering, Norma, and Asia Pharma. To my knowledge original Deca Durabolin by Organon is not produced any more since the Schering took over. Asia Pharma is out everywhere, so I was trying to find Norma. Easy enough one would say.

Short version:

Doing some computing I come to realization that any Norma nandrolone decanoate sold for less than $12.00 cannot be real unless you live in a parallel universe. Than with crunching some more numbers we come to a conclusion that with all the costs involved there is no way a 10 ml 300 mg nandrolone decanoate can be sold for $60.00 and actually containing advertised 3000 mgs of nandrolone. Don’t be fooled by low prices, you’re cheap with your life. 😉

I don’t mind paying for quality stuff but cheaper is still better and I’ve contacted some people I’ve death with in the past. I also kept in mind the Lab test done by the German authorities when the busted couple of dealers (to refresh your memory, all the deca there, mainly Norma, was fake containing testosterone – more info here). And the replies I got were very “interesting”). The record braking offer came from Portugal, He gets them for EUR 1.9 a piece ($2.7) and for me he would send 40 vials to me for EUR 2.5, cause “You’re my friend”. Got many other offers, prices ranging in the segment of EUR 4 – EUR 7, some claiming domestic delivery, etc. All claiming original product, 100% satisfaction guarantee. And going as far as $20 per vial when ordering 40 vials. Wooha, sounds interesting? Sure $3 per vial sounds like a deal of a lifetime but what would I actually be getting?

Got an acquaintance in Greece, supposedly well connected, so naturally I contacted him as well hoping he would be able to arrange something for me. After all, Norma is made in Greece so the price should be lowest there. I was out of luck though, as he gave up dealing completely, but he was able to give me some info. And the info was quite shocking. According to him, the price out of the factory for a wholesaler was EUR 2.2 ($3) per vial for a large quantity, the wholesalers than markup their charge, sell them to pharmacies (I assume a 30% markup, so we’re at EUR 3 ) and than the pharmacies sell them for EUR 4 – 5 per vial, depending what deal one can get. To top it off, pharmacies in Greece actually require a prescription these days, so getting quantities is really hard. BTW, the price for pharmaceutical grade raw material of nandrolone decanoate is supposed to be around $1.2 to $1.7 per vial (200 mg), depending on quantity, purity, etc. I really did my homework on this one!

Now let’s do some logical thinking. First of all, re-selling steroids is usually a lucrative business, the main motive of the business being money. I really doubt that anybody would intentionally brake the law out of sheer charity. So naturally, I assume that the dealer’s share is at least 50% of the value, probably a lot more. What we’ve learned from the recent arrests was the dealers ended up with a lot of money 😉 Hickman (UK) had a 100% markup. Second of all, if it is really hard to get a product in the country where it is made, the initial source also wants a lot of cash so he would sell the product without papers. I really doubt that the factory itself would sell their prods underground (although it is Greece after all), most probably a wholesaler would be willing to get rid of some extra products, probably with some extra money for the trouble.

So we can safely assume it’s impossible to get original, Greek made Norma Nandrolone Decanoate below EUR 3, with the dealers bribe probably more like EUR 4. And this is the beginning of the line. According to my “Portugal Friend”, his Norma must have gotten cheaper on the way from Greece to Portugal, probably because of the rotation of the earth or something. How else can I explain he gets Original Norma in Portugal for 30% less than the factory sells it for? Even if somebody robbed the factory he would have charged a lot more than EUR 1.9 for robbery and smuggling to Portugal.

Even if I look at offers around $7.00 I still wonder how in the hell they could do it without some charity work involved (as said, I believe dealing roids is mainly for profit). Let’s say one gets ORIGINAL NORMA from a wholesaler, I think that’s the most probable way, It would cost around EUR 4. That, ladies and gentlemen, is $5.60 these days! So whoever is selling them for 6, 7, even 8 dollars, including shipping and all other costs, is in my opinion yanking my *****. Domestic delivery for $8-10 is in my opinion also bull as I doubt anyone would smuggle loads of Illegal substances to US for a mere end profit of 2, maybe 3 US dollars per vial.

Reflecting on this I would have to assume the cheapest you could get real, Original Norma, would be in the price range of $12-13 dollars, or more. As said, sources usually have a high markup. Everything below that is most probably a fake product with some test or no steroid contents, possibly even a scam. So the old saying “I’m not rich enough to buy cheap” is on the spot. The problem of course is that the dealers will read this post and will simply increase prices, so you will end up paying more for same fake Norma. (BTW, I am really sorry for this).

And, as we’re on the subject, what about the other prices? Prices of the so called Underground Labs? The newest and “The best” Sciroxx brand Deca is sold for $80, if you buy bulk you can get it for as low as $60. Do note it is supposed to be 300 mg per ml so in theory the cost of raw should be that much higher. If we look at the raw price above, we would conclude the raw materials cost $2 – $2.5 per ml, 10 ml vial should therefore contain some 22 USD worth of raw materials. Include other substances, you’re at 25 USD. Now we have to include cost of equipment – this is complicated. In general smaller factory costs more per item manufactured than a large one (per unit manufactured). So the cost should be quite high. It’s most probably not really a Human Grade product, so the price is really hard to determine. And there’s labor – this is exactly vice versa. In a legit pharmaceutical company the salaries are small while in an Underground lab the labor costs more as it is in the end an illegal activity. So we’ll assume the total cost of the vial is around $30.00. now add a 50% markup (steroid dealers are greedy) and we get factory price of $45. This translates to $3.00 per 200 mg which, you will notice, is comparable to Norma Factory price.

So my question is, since these labs supposedly don’t sell directly, where are the fees for dealers, aggressive marketing, shipping products, etc? Are these guys really saints and all in all their profit is only 30% of the price the buyer buys it for? However I turn these figures around I doesn’t add up. The only error I see in my speculation is that I’ve made a mistake and got the wrong price for the raw material. Or maybe I didn’t and they’re just using lower grade raw materials? Who knows…

In the end I decided I would try any Norma just to be on the safe side – I’d rather wait a little. For you guys that bother to read this whole extremely long post (I’ll probably move it to articles section) the end line is this: Don’t be fooled by the low prices. If the price is really low, they’ve must have compensated elsewhere. The 300 deca you’re buying may only contain 200 mg, maybe 100 mg, maybe test, you never know. It will give you some results, enough for you to be happy with and that’s the whole trick why Underground Labs are still around – buy it is probably not what you’ve paid for.

Counterfeits, Scams, UGs, will it ever end?

Sometimes I’m really sad the fat man jumped, and sometimes I’m really happy for it.

Couple of days ago I wrote about a site pretending to be Asia Pharma manufacturer that copied their site and simply added a store to it. In case it wasn’t clear, my point was that if Asia Pharma really intended to sell on the internet they would do it on their original site – or at least provide a link to the store. This way it is pretty obvious that the whole deal is a scam.

Anyways, surprise surprise, British Dragon, The Father and the Mother (probably all the grandparents as well) of Underground steroid manufacturers published the following news couple of days back:

Fraudulent British Dragon Domains

As per our previous news about British Dragon counterfeiters here is another warning. is the only official domain of British Dragon. Any other domain that claims to be an official British Dragon domain, all other domains like www.britishdragon.ext (eg. www britishdragon name , www britishdragon ru) are NOT official British Dragon domains.

For example, www britishdragon eu is a typical fraudulent domain presenting itself as an official British Dragon domain. The products presented and sold on the domain are obviously counterfeited and potentially deadly. An obvious sign of counterfeited product is the fact the products carry our official domain while the products themselves have mistakes printed on the label (for example, 7 year expiration period).

All potential customers interested in purchase of British Dragon products should be warned that British Dragon does not take any responsibility for use of counterfeited products and the counterfeited products are extremely dangerous, potentially deadly. We will posts news of all new British Dragon production batches on as soon as the new batches are approved.

Now, I don’t know what is going on in the heads of these domain-owners (OK, it’s sometin’ like this $.$) but what are buyers thinking? If you do google on British Dragon you’ll find 2.2 mil hits, and every other one is selling BD products, and they all look different. So which one is the right one? Probably the one at the top, dah. They all have one thing in common, if you check the domain on the vials, it will say . Which is hilarious since they’re all sold on different domains, and just about everyone is claiming to be the manufacturer. But these so called manufacturers are working on the success of the old BD, and although the people are aware of BD products, they don’t know they stopped producing years ago. If they knew that one owner is dead and the other one in jail that could make them think. So which BD seller to choose? None – the original is not producing an the other ones are fake. Still unsure? Read this paragraph again.

This situation has its positive aspects though (besides the DON’T BUY BD PRODUCTS commandment). As it is harder and harder for even experienced Bodybuilders to choose which steroid brand to use and double so for a newb, it would be the time to make some form of a standard by which to measure legitimacy of a brand and their products. I do believe that counterfeiting itself is one of the criteria to consider. I think the counterfeiters and/or scammers are the most informed individuals of the quality and sales of products on the market at any given moment. So their actions in turn tell us a lot about quality of the original products. And as we know from general education, Imitation is the Highest From of Flattery. ERGO: If a company is widely counterfeited the original product must be good. If it is not counterfeited, it must be bad. (Btw, is it just me or did I only hear of Axio counterfeits when test of their products give bad results?)

If we look at it on an example of Organon Sustanon (Schering now) – we all know ORIGINAL Sustanon is a product of very good quality. And it is a sad fact it is counterfeited in enormous quantities. Even much so, that although Organon makes gazillion of amps every year you are more likely to find a counterfeited Sustanon than an original.

Unfortunately the endeavor of forming unified standards by which to judge the brands is destined to fail as there is no governing body that would unify in this. It is a sad fact that 99% of forums are setup with the sole intent of pushing the selected products of the forum sponsors, and most debates about different products will be locked, trashed, or erased. Don’t get me wrong, forums are great if you seek information on how to use steroids, but for determining product legitimacy they are very bad.

So what’s the point of this post? Think with your head and use logic when deciding which product to buy. As Doctor S wrote in his blog, don’t mind paying more if the product is really good. In the end, it is still better to pay $10 for Sust that contains 250 mg than to pay $5 for a Sust that contains 50 mg or even nothing at all. And don’t you even consider buying BD from a counterfeited site.