Well, I’m really being proud of myself right now. I thought that only limited number of people are reading this blog and with the workload at my job I grew really lazy writing it. I guess I just got a new kick now
I stopped checking BOS regularly after I was banned twice, so it took me a while noticing, but today I got to see this new Body of Science topic. And basically it’s all about this site and the posts posted here. Awesome.
I though about writing a response on the topic but hey, I’d be banned just the same, so why bother.
The biggest misunderstanding (I could say lie, but everyone can interpret any post his/her own way) is that I’m attacking BOS for some weird reasons, trying to push Asia Pharma products, threatening Bill, attacking honest UGLs, etc. I hope this post will clarify matters. And will probably be misunderstood and misinterpreted.
Firs of all, YES, I like Asia Pharma products. I don’t hide it, I’m proud of it. I also like Zambon, Organon, Schering, Norma, etc. The manufacturer doesn’t really matter as long as the products is of good quality. I’ve come by many good products in my time and have learned to appreciate quality. And I’ve tried many bad products that in the end completely ruined my cycle. Either they were not even close enough to potency advertised, or they were completely mislabeled, usually both. I’ve had the luck of never getting a serious infection but know people that did. For all those reasons I don’t like Underground products. I want to be as good as I can be and for me what really matters is the end result which only quality products can give, even if I have to pay more for them. Be all you can be.
I have a sponsor. Who doesn’t? I appreciate the fact that I can get gear for less money or free, and if all it costs me is to have a banner on the site, hell, why not. Now, to make it a conspiracy theory out of it, that’s a bit too much though. I saw numerous posts on the subject of Asia Pharma ownership with numerous suppositions, but I better get it out in the open now. I own Asia Pharma. I also own British Dragon. I bought them from the dividends received from my shares in Schering-Plough. And in case you didn’t know the whole reason we took over Organon was cause we really wanted to have Deca and Susta in our portfolio. And the only reason I’m doing this blog thing is cause I’m bored. Doh.
The funniest part of the whole post is the “lie about registration etc” part. Now I’m a cautious person (I think) but the wealth of info AsiaPharma has provided regarding their products manufacturing is incredible in comparison to other brands. Yet it seems it is never enough. Show this show that. Once they do - “o, you faked it”. If the guy took the time to read the articles on this page, he could at least also post the pharmacy links in the older posts. I’ve been to those and they actually sell Asia Pharm. I guess he only shows info that supports his claims and ignores the rest. Tc tc tc, what would your old teacher say about that?! His summaries all all wrong too, as in many of the articles quoted there is no mention of the AP brand whatsoever, although I do hope there is something educational in all of em. But in the big picture I must be writing all that just to advertise Asia Pharma. I hope I get big bucks out of it. Wait; I already own all the companies.
Here’s a funny one:
QUOTE 6
Furthermore, you never know where the UGs are made. Well, actually, you can imagine. Remember the last drug related movie you’ve seen (doesn’t really matter which one) - the drug lab you’ve seen in that movie is exactly what an UG lab looks like. Well, probably looks even better, remember, there’s a lot more money in drugs. And that product you inject every day for 3 months. When you’re buying a car you would like to have all the possible Airbags, electronics, and god knows what else just so you would be safe in case you crash. But you might not crash. Actually, probability of a crash is a lot lower than probability of an infection from a product made in a dusty trailer-park that you will inject every day for 3 months.
OK, I know this analogy is a bit off but I hope it gets the message over. You want to be the best and only the best products can get you there.
END QUOTE 6
TRANSLATION
Buy asiapharma.com eurohormones.com new britishdragon.com overpriced UGL because we asiapharma eurohormones britishdragon tell you that it is HG.
And all other UGLs and HG producers are bad for you.
Now if anyone can bother to read the actual post, he’ll realize that It’s all about using Human Grade gear without any specific brands. How this person sees this article as a bashing of any other GMP human grade steroids is beyond me.
As far as Bill’s bashing is concerned, it’s quite simple. I’m a critic and critics criticize. I’ve written many times I have great respect for his work but there are things that he could do better. And that is exactly as the articles were meant - as Constructive criticism meant to further improve his work. Any person that considers himself to be an educated person knows it for what it is. I know Dextroz went to college so he obviously must have skipped that class - here is a description of constructive criticism by wisegeek.com:
Constructive criticism is criticism kindly meant that has a goal of improving some area of another’s person’s life or work. Often constructive criticism refers specifically to the critique of someone else’s written or artistic work, in perhaps a teacher/student setting, that would allow that person to further improve the work or to improve their approach to future endeavors. However, constructive criticism can also apply to a critical reasoned analysis of a person’s behavior, as in a patient/therapist setting or a group therapy setting.
I did not, however, write anything without proper argumentation. A wise many would see that my actual articles are meant to improve peoples awareness on the subject at hand and also giving them some food for thought. Only a highly prejudiced person would think an article in which I suggest Bill to tell us more details on the testings as a threat. But in the end that what it’s all about. The whole point of the thread on BOS is blemishing the reputation of anyone who would ever say a good thing about Asia Pharma. Basically, if you like the stuff, you are bad.
But Dextroz is right in one thing, ones writing speaks a lot of the author. Now I look at his posts he’s doing exactly what he’s accusing others of doing. He makes claims that he cannot support in any way but with a “Translation” of posts of other people (me mainly). He attacks everyone indiscriminately without checking their background - most people in attacked in his thread have far more integrity than himself, and attacking such people without substantial evidence is plainly stupid (not me, but S.B.C. for example).
Asiapharma owners and shills milo, barron, s.b.c., dexterj, mrdext, methan, kendall, Dolcedoberman, peanutbutter and the lot we are not interested in what you have to say.
Some of these guys are admittedly spammers, but other are definitely not.
Furthermore he refers to other articles on the internet which are all written in the same style that suggest they are the work of the same group/person. And those same references use evidence like “adjusted” articles by William Llewllyn.
And among all this, writing how disgusting everything is, accusing people of making threats, he goes and threatens the first person who replies to his thread:
Now shut it or someone else will do it for you.
Sherlock, BOS is a forum and people are supposed to make comments, what did you think, you’d just make 500 accounts and have it all to yourself?!
Judging by all this I can’t help but believe this is simply a tactic to make the other guys look bad while you try to sell as much of your own brand. Otherwise, why so much rage, so much hatred, attacking like a small rabid dog? The dog’s got no teeth but barks in the night nevertheless.
Well, I still learned couple of thing from this:
British Dispensary lost the license for Androlic and not Anabol. My bad.
Cause so many people believe British Dragon is associated to Asia Pharma and EuroHormones these days we might get BD HGH? That would be good and sure as hell is worth looking into it.
Forums really are full of s*** these days.
We’ve had an interesting discussion with my buddies in the gym the other day and the topic of the day was UG or HG.
I know this is on many people’s minds these days and the main question people ask themselves is:
Why would I pay USD 120.00 for 10 ml of Sust if I can get it from a buddy for 40?
Well, unfortunately, it’s not that simple and many people don’t realize they’re being cheap with their lives. In a way, buying steroids is like buying a car. Sure, you can get a cheap Chevy, but if you pay more you can get a Mercedes. Almost everyone knows the difference and most people, If they had this option, would opt for the Merc. Why? Leaving all the subjective reasons like looks aside it is a fact that Merc is a better car, especially when safety is concerned. In this sense, Human Grade steroids are the same - they are way safer!
Sure, 60 bucks difference is huge. But, just like with a car, you get way more. Usually UG prods are under-dosed or don’t even contain the substance you want to get. With human grade prods you will always know that you are getting exactly what you pay for, in the declared dose. Just like you know the Merc is a lot faster than the Chevy.
Furthermore, you never know where the UGs are made. Well, actually, you can imagine. Remember the last drug related movie you’ve seen (doesn’t really matter which one) - the drug lab you’ve seen in that movie is exactly what an UG lab looks like. Well, probably looks even better, remember, there’s a lot more money in drugs. And that product you inject every day for 3 months. When you’re buying a car you would like to have all the possible Airbags, electronics, and god knows what else just so you would be safe in case you crash. But you might not crash. Actually, probability of a crash is a lot lower than probability of an infection from a product made in a dusty trailer-park that you will inject every day for 3 months.
Ok, I know this analogy is a bit off but I hope it gets the message over. You want to be the best and only the best products can get you there.
The counterfeiters are a plague of pharmaceutical markets for the past 15 years or so. Even more so in the world of anabolic steroids, where established brands, known for the quality and potency of their prods, are counterfeited as soon as the brand gets some positive feedback. So it would seem that a good, responsible manufacturer would also put some effort in making their products as hard to counterfeit as possible.But they rarely do. Why is that?
A new brand was launched couple of months ago, definitely UG, but given the reports of very good quality and very affordable. They seem to have done almost everything right (OK, some of info on the labels was misspelled and users on the forums had to correct them, but these are minor flaws). They also seem to be investing heavily into the advertising so up to this point everything seemed to be perfect. Well, almost everything as they have just declared their products are being counterfeited.
It’s very hard to protect a pharmaceutical brand from counterfeiting these days - all kinds of machinery for making amps, filling vials, pressing tabs, etc, can be bought for a little money. So with little knowledge and effort anyone can make a perfect copy of any product on the market. The endless discussions on the forums whether a product is fake or not prove this point. It is very interesting that so little companies actually react to that. The product verification most used at this time seems very reliable and easy to implement, and some conscious (and some a bit less conscious) companies have actually implemented it without any problems. Euro Hormones, Jintropin, Asia Pharma, Balkan, even the new British Dragon, all have some sort of a variation of product verification.
So the question at hand is why don’t they all do it? Answering this is a bit harder than one would think though.
Major pharmaceutical companies are extremely touchy when their reputation is at stake. Companies like Schering, Organon, Norma, etc, cherish the profits they make from sales of anabolic steroids but are aware that at the same time these products have negative effect on their reputation. They are most probably aware that their products are used as sport enhancers but they ignore it as long as the money comes in and no questions are asked. Given this status quo the counterfeiting of their products is actually a little bit in their interest. Whenever Anabolics are found in a raid or at a customs check it is extremely hard to say if they are originals or counterfeits, and the company owning the brand can always claim they are counterfeits. So for them the counterfeits are basically excuse to sell even greater amounts of products. It makes it a bit harder for the end user, but that’s the price of doing worldwide business.
On the other hand we have small Underground labs. These have a completely different problem - quality. Even the best of them can never be sure how their next batch will look like as they are always dependent on the raw material suppliers. If the raw materials are bunk, the end product will be bunk. And one bunk batch can kill an Underground. And if they had a solid, tamper proof verification system, they could potentially be exposed as manufacturing bunk gear. So for these Labs counterfeiting, given the right conditions, is a positive thing. They could be loosing some profits from counterfeiters but on the other hand whenever there is a problem with any of their products the line will be “It’s a counterfeit products, not ours”. Hmmm.
I know, you’re now thinking, hey, they all have a list of valid suppliers, whoever is there has to have their legit products. The answer is - NOT. This system was introduced by the old British Dragon and it showed how vulnerable it is. Alin was the first to do this. The scam is very simple - Order a small amount of original products and you will earn your place on the legitimate supplier list. Once you are there, simply order or make lots of fakes. Every once in a while order some extra originals and you are set. Profit guaranteed. You are a bastard but you’ll earn a lot, and the best thing is, if you get a complaint you simply direct the customer to the manufacturer (and the manufacturer will blame counterfeits). You are on the supplier list so it is definitely not your fault.
There are probably some extra reasons why these verification systems are not in place. Hard to implement, costs extra, not user-friendly, etc, is simply an excuse as the price of a simple system is probably insignificant compared to the price of the whole product. And I’m sure every customer would be willing to pay an extra dollar or two to be absolutely sure that the product is legitimate.
So considering everything we can see that in all cases the real reason why such a system is not in place is unwillingness of the company to be accountable for their products. In case of large pharmaceutical companies that can be partially understood, while in case of Underground Labs it simply shows the level of their self esteem. So if you have a choice between two very equal products, one with a verification and one without, go for the one with verification…
I don’t know if simply didn’t pay that much attention the past years but I am noticing an increasing trend this past year. It seems the steroid related infections are on the rise…
Sure, there were some posts on the forums like “I had a bad infection, my injecting spot is swelling like hell” but there were quite rare. It could be that pure text doesn’t draw that much attention and now that there are plenty pics out there it is more noticeable. However, Digital cameras out there for a decade now and I’m sure that some individuals would record infections if they had one. This past year things changed though. On basically every forum you can see treads of people making pics of nasty “side-effects” of using non-Human Grade gear. Yesterday I saw this hideous video on an Australian blog here
WARNING - if you have a bad stomach, don’t watch it!
Now this vid is hideous in more than one sense. Sure, it’s gross to look at for all but health care pros - I don’t faint at sight of blood but I could barely watch this. It’s more hideous if you start thinking of the cause of this. Now, it doesn’t say what the guy was using, but I really doubt it was your every day orig Schering Sust that caused this. If I would have to guess something more exotic was injected into that biceps (UG), and if it was a shoddy UG product with high bacteria levels, than someone is directly responsible. And that is the hideous part, somebody deliberately made an unhealthy product and sold it for profit knowing really well that an infection is not only possible but likely to occur.
If we get back to the trend of rising infections there are couple of possibilities why the trend is rising. Some bodybuilders believe in the conspiracy theory - As most forums are sponsored by some or another UG manufacturer they believe that the moderators on those forums deliberately banned people who would make any negative reports of the product that caused the infection, sepsis, etc… As people using one brand would manly visit and post on one forum and other forums would not allow posts on other brands anyway, it went unnoticed. This theory has one major flaw though, as boards are still sponsored the info would not be possible to publish just as before. Also, the competitor boards would happily post negative info on other brands.
Second possibility is user awareness. As a general rule whenever a newb would report a problem it would be accounted to that persons inexperience (Supposedly only newbs get infections). So these reports would be hammered down to the point when the newb would himself believe it was his own problem. As actual test reports started to circle in the past year these guys realized that the products are to be blamed for the problems and reports started to spread more openly.
Yet another theory is that the products themselves have degraded. In the time when there is one new Underground Lab every week and the competition is so intense the prices have to drop. In normal economy that would be really great, but as Underground Labs are not regulated a drop in price also means a significant drop in quality. To top it all, the raw materials are actually harder to get in china due to more control attributed to 2008 Olympics. As Chinese have huge demand but little materials they react as a drug dealer would - they dilute or simply swap the raw materials for something else. And as the quality worsens the infections rise.
I personally think that the truth lies somewhere in between the above. Sure, boards filter and suppress negative reports, but you could post them on other boards without any problems. User awareness has increased in the past years but If I had a hole in the size of a tennis ball in my butt nobody would be able to convince me it’s simply improper injection procedures - I’d scream it out with all the details. The last theory in my mind is the most credible, but I wouldn’t say it’s only that - as UGs didn’t use much in the way of advanced pharma equipment before, they cant really use less (unless they moved to a really dirty location, say trailer park…). So, all of these theories are somewhat correct but as all things in life it’s a mix of everything that lead to this. The simple solution to all of this is quite simple though, stay away from Underground products.
Ivan Tsikhan, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, Justin Gatlin, Floyd Landis, Barry Bonds… just a few names that were caught doping - Were they guilty of crimes or were they just pushing their bodies to the limit and beyond to show us the possibilities of human body?
In some industries it is practically encouraged to get better results with pharmaceuticals and with help from different doctors. Plastic operation, Botox, Viagra, Collagen injections are just a few examples to enhance the abilities and looks.
If we just look at show business, how many actresses are using Botox to slow their age and how many actors were using HGH to enhance their looks. The look is everything, the make or break of current show business.
It is OK for an actor to visit a surgeon and change whatever needs changing, in fact they are encouraged to do so by their agents, producers, whatever. In porn 99% of actors take Viagra and consider it work tool. Some people object, but generally this is accepted and the law allows it. Yes, this is alright as show business is multi-billion dollar business and these “enhanced” people get to pay more taxes… It doesn’t stop there though, what cannot be changed on the body is later changed on the pictures and most pictures of models these days are digital altered. These are all legal ways to improve the functionality and achievements, nothing is wrong here.
But if the Marion Jones wants to beat the World Record and she is using Erythropoietin (EPO) she is the Devil herself. Wait a minute. Wasn’t she just using all the possibilities she had for that 1/100 of a second, so that she could satisfy our needs for the game itself. The World Record and Gold medals are worth something. First place is the winner, the second isn’t first and the third place is remembered by no one.
Yes, you could say that this is not the sportsmanship, doping is cheating. However, in that case it is not fair that some athletes are training for years using high altitude training, world class nutrition, best coaches and the best equipment they could get their hands on while others were using only old equipment, bad coaches, some were also malnourished. So this cannot be considered sportsman-like either. If we start saying what is OK and what is not, we should really go deeper than just saying doping is bad, everything else is OK. Let’s be frank, most athletes are using some kind of doping, the only difference is they don’t get caught. And the only reason they don’t get caught is because they have more money - more influence on the doping committee (Jonson-Lewis), better coaches who are more aware what can be detected and when, and they have access to better doping substances. BALCO affair should have thought us that. If all should have an equal chance why is Armstrong allowed to use a 100k bike?
Here is an intriguing idea - Why not giving athletes a choice? Yes, you can use doping, but it is your decision only. It is your body, it is your life. Sure would make all the events more interesting… The whole concept of legalized doping would become better for us as we would get new better substances, they would be better researched, and a lot safer athletes would be under constant medical supervision. And of course, no more UG’s.
It seems the law enforcement is cracking down on Underground steroid and pharmacy producers all over the world. The interesting thing to note is that it seems all these actions are somehow connected. If we follow the news stories it all started in UAE where they found a lot of counterfeit products, than moved to Bulgaria (the country has the record of being the most corrupt European Union state, but it is in EU so no customs to other countries). In Bulgaria they found 3 mil worth of counterfeited pharmaceutical products, steroids, Viagra, etc. including machinery for manufacturing counterfeited products. At that point it was said that they found evidence that the products were destined for western markets. And that was the end of story for Bulgaria.
A week later, and there’s all the news how they arrested dealers in Germany, UK, Israel, South Africa, Canada… It is nowhere specifically noted that any of the busts were connected to Bulgarian bust, but we can speculate. I admit that South Africa and Bulgaria are probably not connected, but Germany could definitely be connected. I have no problems with dealers selling counterfeited drugs being busted but this shows us that police all over the world is getting organized and actually cooperate. Furthermore, they have identified illegally produced underground and counterfeited products as potentially very dangerous. Undoubtedly this is mainly influenced by large pharmaceutical companies as they are loosing money, but general health is the excuse. It could be a coincidence, but…
So how does this concern fellow bodybuilders. At this point, not much. Bulgarian bust took counterfeited Norma and other prods of the market, so it’s good. New people will start making counterfeits though, so no long range change there. However, you should know that ten years ago, steroids were not of much discussion in law enforcement circles, and Polize cooperation between different countries was literally non-existent. This connected busts do change things and will definitely put some extra pressure on the UG’s. So the worst case scenario is higher prices and ultimately less UGs. Probably not a bad thing…
I still remember the first cycle I ever had like it was yesterday - 12 vials of organon deca, 10 amps of sust, some d-bol, 8 weeks, and I got HUGE! OK, I’m aware that some past experiences are idealized in memories but I still think it was the biggest gain I ever got in a single cycle since. Looking back it seems quite a small amount of juice as at peak I was doing 300 mg of Deca and 500 mg of test and couple of dbol tabs every day.
I’ve used larger doses since (who hasn’t) but I always tried to do two cycles per year and have ample clean time in between. I know Pros use a lot higher dosages, never ever go off cycle, etc. However, recently I’ve been noticing many newbs and obviously recreative builders tend to use higher and higher dosages. I can understand more is better mentality but enough is enough and when an acquaintance in the local gym told me the other day he was about to use 6-10 anavar tabs (100 mg per day) on his next cycle I was completely speechless. WTF?!
As said before I may be able to understand this if he was a pro (and even than I’d think he’s crazy) but the guy has been on two cycles so far and he’s rookie in all this. So after I regained my ability to speak I naturally asked what the hell. And he said he heard that anavar is really good etc but was told by his buddy that to be really effective he’d have to use the high doses. I tried and tried and in the end gave up on making him rethink the whole thing.
I did get me thinking though. Now, if you follow forums you will realize that this is indeed going on quite frequently and that many members (and admins) advocate such doses. 4 or 5 amps of Sust per week, 800+ mg of deca per week, 10 anavar tabs, all these amounts really seem crazy. I remember when I was using Oxandrolone I would use up to 12 tabs per day, but they were 2.5 mg per tab. So who in right state of mind would use 100 mg. hmmm
Of course, the whole deal can be explained quite easily (took me a while though…). Me, being a naive juicer who tends to believe the label, the doses seem extreme. However, many people have realized that they need to translate the label. I know, the labels are in English so why translate them?
It is estimated that a great majority of bodybuilders (as far as 95%) willingly or unwillingly use UG, counterfeit, or fake gear. Whatever the reason, people take into account. So, consciously or unconsciously, they compensate. It is no secret that counterfeit and UG products are grossly under-dosed, in some cases as much to only contain only 25% of the advertised dose. They often also contain a completely different active ingredient but that is another story. As these products are often the only items available this is ignored as under-dosed crap is better than nothing.
This is where things get complicated. Some UG’s actually contain more than is advertised. It doesn’t happen to often really, but some times it does. Late Mark at one time was boasting (in 2005) that the latest batch of BD had 110% of active ingredient as they were unsure of what quality the raw material was. Axxio also was recently boasting that his latest batch also contained 10% extra. Now this maybe just a marketing trick but what will happen if (or when) they actually do make such a batch? Guys used to inject triple doses will suddenly be using 330%?!
Now, I do hope that even UGs will sooner or later be dosed as advertised doses but on the other hand I’m quite afraid of the consequences if they do. Sure, most people will again adjust and will be fine, but some poor individuals will have real problems. In a way all this is wishful thinking as I really doubt that the chinese dealers will start selling 100% raws and UGs on the other hand will not invest in a lab to verify the quality of raw materials. So, in a way, we will remain safe
If you are interested in recent developments surrounding the Bill Llewllyns book about underground steroids you definitely need to follow the following discussion:
Do note that some members have posted some personal info on some of the people involved and some of them got deleted… so you might want to check regularly. Quite an interesting (well, I’d call it entertaining) read. I do hope some good will be the end result of this (like knowing who makes what).
I wrote the last couple of hours too early yesterday, many new interesting things happened since…
First of all, Llewllyn’s site www.bodyofscience.com is back online. According to Ronnie of BOS the attack happened because of Expected negative report in Bill’s new book of a certain UG lab based in Moldova. This is a “official” statement on the subject by a bodyofscience admin RonnyT
There was yet another bust in Texas yesterday as DEA was notified of suspicious packages addressed to a home in San Antonio. More info and Video on Ksat.
First of all, I’m glad these guys were arrested. Don’t get me wrong, I’m for legalization or at least decriminalization of anabolics in the states as much as any other juicing bodybuilder. However, I really feel sorry for any poor sucker who would buy “High Quality Gear” from these guys. If you watch the whole video (not really long though) you will notice these guys were actually manufacturing their products in the trailer. Having entered couple of trailers parks in my past they were seldom clean and I would think of this as quite a bacteria friendly environment. You will note that the raw materials they were using weren’t really protected and somebody simply wrote the contents on the zip-lock baggies. What if the person who labeled these baggies made a mistake? You will note that on one it said Anabar. Hmmm, the news didn’t say nothing about any drugs or painkillers (Anabar is a trade name for a mild pain-killer, see more here). Or was it supposed to be Anavar? Now if they can’t get the spelling right, how can they ensure the content is right?
I really wonder who of us would willingly want to inject an unknown substance mixed with frying oil, made in a Trailer park!? I see no real loss with this arrest…
There is another more troubling thought though. With all the recent arrests in the past weeks it seems the DEA is on the move so we should all be real careful. Texans especially. Unless the news report is false and DEA lying this arrest happened because they found “A series of suspicious packages” and “The source varies. East coast, west coast.” This would suggest that DEA is checking domestic packages, most probably putting postal workers on alert for any suspicious packages.
I really doubt that DEA is looking for end customers but in the past it has happened that some postal worker would freak, local sheriff would freak thinking “DRUGS” and in the end police could brake down your doors cause you ordered some winny on the net. So if you expect a delivery soon you might want to be somewhat careful. I doubt DEA would bother with a small package but better to be safe than sorry.
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